Replies

1. Jon Reed Feb 24th 2009
   

   Guys, TERRIFIC job as always. Dennis did an excellent job of framing the certification debate as it currently stands.

   With each episode I listen to, I can feel myself becoming more and more of an enterprise geek and that is great. I was already a pretty valid aspiring geek I think, but bringing the geekdom into the enterprise is a whole ‘nuther matter. I have an “SDN Uber Geek” hat, but I’m still growing into it. A few more podcasts and it should fit even better!

   As for my thoughts on certification, I think my views on this topic are pretty well out there by now. At this point, like you guys, I want to learn more during the Mentor Certification webcast, and then offer my views at that point.

   I believe Dennis is absolutely correct that SAP needs its Mentors (as well as possibly key SCN contributors) to be on board with SAP certification if it is to successfully establish a new level of market credibility. Some way of making certification virtually free, perhaps for those who establish some level of hourly community involvement, could be one way to turn some of the biggest and most effective dissenters into advocates – but only if the certifications themselves are up to snuff, because we all know these sometimes cantakerous and pretty brilliant people we rub up against in this community can’t be bought.

   In anticipation of the upcoming webcast, I have prepared a series of questions I have about SAP certification I will try to get answered during the webcast.

   Some of the most important ones have already been answered. In a response to my comment on Dennis’ recent blog, Sue Martin of SAP Education noted that not only will the highest level (Master) incorporate field experience, but the mid-level (Professional) will be a more well-rounded program than a narrow certification that I have always felt was limited – and even moreso now in the era of the process-driven enterprise where silos can be toxic. I was also encouraged to hear that Sue’s team is working on tying in community involvement and participation into certification somehow. Not sure how that would be done but it’s encouraging to think that this issue is being grappled with.

   Which leads me to a few points that weren’t touched on during this podcast that SAP likely needs to address at some point. One is the perception that SAP’s new certification push is largely an act of financial self-interest in an era where big upgrade revenues are going to diminish. I don’t happen to have this issue, I think SAP has every right to make money on certification, but many criticisms of SAP certification seem to center on the notion of unacknowledged financial agendas and so that point lingers out there, begging some kind of response. It’s not an elephant in the room but it’s not a mouse either. Maybe it’s a fairly large dog size.

   Another aspect I’m looking forward to hearing more about is industry-specific know-how. This is becoming an increasingly important requirement to customers, who tend to be skeptical of a referral of a “quality financials consultant,” for example, who doesn’t know their industry. So it will be interesting to learn about how SAP might anticipate (and validate) industry specialization.

   I continue to believe that BPX certifications, properly developed, would accomplish much of the need for a more well-rounded way of validating SAP consulting skills, so I am always looking to learn more about that. Finally, the notion of a peer or customer review system cannot, in my view, be overlooked. The technical tools are in place for such a peer review/recommendation system to be implemented, and as I’ve noted before, ASUG Edge is one such example that may be worth pursuing (I’m hoping to do a story on this site’s lessons learned fairly soon, we’ll see). What I have said is that if SAP does not grapple with this type of system internally, they run the risk of a third party coming out with one, and if it became broadly accepted, that would surely diminish the value of SAP certification, because at least in my view, several terrific customer references are going to continue to outweigh a classroom test, no matter how much it is improved.

   My two cents, or was it four? See you on the webcast!

   - Jon -
2. Jon Reed Feb 24th 2009
   

   p.s. I forgot to mention, Dennis was looking to recall if it was IBM in NYC that said they preferred the Microsoft certification to SAP’s. That was actually the Roche CIO, Jennifer Allerton, who indeed said that. Michael Krigsman of ZDNet posted the entire interview with Allerton on a recent blog entry. I stitched together simply the parts of the discussion that related to SAP certification and posted that in a recent JonERP.com blog entry as well.

   - Jon -
3. Ed Herrmann Feb 24th 2009
   

   @Jon – Thanks for the great compliments! We love to hear that we can help slowly pull you into full-time ubergeek.

   1 cent – The financial aspect, is yes, the big Marmaduke in the room that has been mentioned. The best way for SAP to turn Marmaduke into a chihuahua is to A) charge a reasonable price that is even accessible to independents and small consulting shops and B) put together a quality certification program that proves it’s worth and value over time.
   2 cents – Excellent points about the industry specific areas, especially related to BPX certs. If you are claiming yourself a business process expert in a specific field, I would expect you to have some kind of experience/certification to back that up. It’s a little more cloudy when it comes to development work. Someone can claim they have FI experience because they wrote a report that retrieved data from an FI table, but that doesn’t necessarily qualify them as an FI expert. On the other hand, depending on the exact nature of the requirement, I don’t need to have industry specific knowledge to develop a well designed, scalable application. I would hope the solution architect certs stayed out of the industry specific arena, but maybe with them still available. Perhaps something similar to a college major and minor. My major is Solution Architect and I have a minor in SD.
4. Jon Reed Feb 24th 2009
   

   Ed, agreed on both points. SAP can definitely defuse the “cost Marmaduke” by taking some of the steps you mentioned. If SAP can show that certification is not just a profit center but a means to support its implementations, through the means you suggested and perhaps others, then that will go a long way.

   I would also agree that industry knowledge is not as important in some SAP roles as it is in others. That’s probably where the input from customers becomes crucial, in terms of SAP deliverying the types of individuals best suited for a particular industry. At any rate, we’ll learn more tomorrow on the webcast so I’m sure there will be more to comment on real soon.

   - Jon -
5. John P Feb 25th 2009
   

   Among all the companies offering to help Coghead customers, an interesting case comes from Wolf Frameworks, migrating coghead based applications without rebuilding the app design. check it out here: http://www.powerinthecloud.com…..ation.html

   This comment was originally posted on AccMan
6. Mark Finnen Mar 2nd 2009
   

   Hi Dennis,

   Excellent observations regarding the SAP Mentor initiative and their potential.

   Had to smile when I read it thinking about how I had to twist your arm about two years ago to join. Most valuable arm twisting I ever did I think

   Thanks for being such a great example of what being an SAP Mentor is all about.

   Mark Finnern
   SAP Community Network

   This comment was originally posted on AccMan
7. Michael Koch Mar 2nd 2009
   

   Hey Dennis,

   I’d like to pick up on your last paragraph about passion and emotional relationships. Because SAP, its customer base, users and consultants include such a vast number of people there’ll have to be A LOT MORE peeps who come forward and drive this passion.

   The fact that we now have SDN, SAP Mentors and a far more open relationship has already made a huge difference. It’s exciting and I’d love to know where we are in 5 years time.

   As far as changes to education is concerned, fair play, but I do think that there is too much emphasis on (supposedly) poor skills at the moment, which makes people forget that low ROI on installs is not always a training and education issue, but can also be a result of over-complicated software.

   Regards,
   Michael

   This comment was originally posted on AccMan
8. Dennis Howlett Mar 2nd 2009
   

   @michael – I could devote an entire series on low ROI referencing in implementer quality but suffice to say SAP appears with boring regularity on the pages of Mike Krigsman’s Project Failures blog. He doesn’t have to go looking, they come to him.

   As I’ve consistently said – meaningful certification is a 1st step on the road to improving implementation quality. Agree it is not a panacea but then SAP education will admit past efforts are no longer relevant to today’s reality.

   This comment was originally posted on AccMan
9. Durairaj Athavan Raja Mar 2nd 2009
   

   “…go from a transactional relationship to an emotional relationship with your customers.”

   I learnt this trick from my sales days. It always pays. I still apply this in my ABAPing career which always results in lasting success.

   Raja

   This comment was originally posted on AccMan
10. Mohamed Amer Mar 2nd 2009
    

    Dennis: Great video – authentic energy. I do beg to differ though as I would call Gary a motivational speaker (in a NSFW way)!

    From my personal point of view, we’re witnessing (and as an SAP Mentor, you are experiencing) a slow transformation of how SAP builds software and engages with the “ecosystem”. In general, there are two ways of organizing: plan up front with as much structure and then execute/monitor [a push model if you will]. The other way is to let the “organization” adapt to the market with minimal definition upfront and allow structure to form on its own [a pull model if you wish]. At SAP (and most other large enterprises) things happen with a lot of upfront planning and a defined structure; but with the advent of SAP Community (and SAP Mentors) with SDN, BPX, Eco, Univ, etc.. There is increased willingness to harness the emerging energy and passion and allow structure to take form – becoming more adaptive. Five years from now more of business will be done within connected networks in a more transparent environment. SAP’s future is in helping society to achieve our human potential with enabling “designs” that apply to, and cut across, the overlapping social, environmental, cultural, and business circles . Just as software dev at SAP has gone from an 80’s and 90’s focus on transactions to a more UI emphasis and how users connect with the application, SAP is also transforming the engagement with its customers, partners, stakeholders, and society at large. SAP is better due to the SAP Mentors.

    Mohamed

    This comment was originally posted on AccMan
11. Dennis Howlett Mar 2nd 2009
    

    @mohamed – I don’t know whether you’re an SAP marketer but that sounded like a LOT of SAPenese to me. Trust me when I say that SAP is a TWO-speed company and waaaaay off what you’re describing. At least for now.

    This comment was originally posted on AccMan
12. Mohamed Mar 2nd 2009
    

    @Dennis – I played on the outside and now on the inside of SAP and that’s how I see things. What I describe needs to happen, and the seeds do exist and are getting some TLC. I’ve also come to learn that 1 SAP year> 1 human year, but < 1 year at the Pentagon. Don’t know about sounding like a “LOT of SAPenese”, not so sure that the upper echelons see it necessarily the way I described it… but that is how I see it and how I see SAP succeeding and thriving over the long term and living to the potential of those 50K or so folks and the millions we serve. And finally, NOPE not a marketer, but I am passionate about the people!

    This comment was originally posted on AccMan
13. Jon Reed Mar 6th 2009
    

    Best piece on SAP Mentors I have seen yet. I have been a bit baffled and pleasantly surprised by how becoming an SAP Mentor has further fueled my own passion for SAP. Being challenged by a serious online community, not just of Mentors but active SCN contributors, brings a level of intellectual vigor I have missed in my life since college in the 80s. And these people don’t just care about software as you’ve noted in your profiles above, but big picture issues that matter more than business as usual.

    Dennis, I thought you nailed it in your last paragraph: “The Mentors have an emotional relationship with SAP. And that, like all love affairs, can go one of two ways….The big question: does SAP have an emotional relationship with its Mentors? We’ll see.”

    Right. What I have seen from the Mentors as a group is that they are passionate about SAP, but not in a blind way. They have plenty of very well thought criticisms that are part of a desire to see SAP live up whatever promise its online communities can sometimes imply. In that sense, I think the SAP Mentors can come off as a pain in the ass to SAP sometimes. I know I would find dealing with me every day somewhat of a pain in the ass! Engaging passionate people is not always easy.

    As an example you cited, SAP is determined to improve its certification program and does seem to be listening to Mentors in this area. But: what if the improvements aren’t up to snuff with what Mentors want? SAP is going to hear all about that. Will they tire of that type of conversation? Or will they grow to love that stubbornness? Time will tell. Keep on crushing.

    - Jon

    This comment was originally posted on AccMan
14. Riku Seppälä Jun 15th 2009
    

    Big corporations are known for not getting left behind in disruptions. I would say the current situation is similar to what happened with the change to desktop computing.

    The financial benefits, especially for SME’s of cloud services can be significant. The economies of scale for PaaS vendors is the fact behind this. So for bean counters… Well, actually PaaS makes a lot of business sense, and that big corporations don’t jump on it right away is not an argument against it.

    This comment was originally posted on AccMan

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